Race Matters to This Hillary Voter

Inspired by this diary, which asks: One in four Clinton voters in WV said that race mattered for their votes. They were willing to say this to perfect strangers in exit polls. Why can't we talk about it?

I once heard a young boy say he couldn't be president because that's what white people do.

I began this primary season thinking it was really important we elect a person of color so that young children can look up and dream that they, too can be president.

Obama was my candidate. But then.


But then I learned he pressed the wrong button 6 times in the Illinois legislature. I learned at the Harvard Law Review he took few stands, and tried to be all things to all sides. He was the first Harvard Law Review Editor to not publish a single paper, so the next year the Review established a rule requiring each Editor do so. I learned he hadn't done his homework on a lot of issues, in fact on most of them. I listened to why he didn't want health insurance mandates in his health care plan and his answer was they are a good idea, but it was too hard to get them passed in Congress. (No, we can't?) I learned the nuclear industry lobbyists were able to visit his office and water down his bill to the point that Obama a DEMOCRAT said oversight reporting should be VOLUNTARY. I heard him say Social Security is "in crisis" which set off alarm bells.

And I read about people who'd worked with or known Hillary for years and years and vouched for her character. I learned people who knew both Clintons actually liked her better than Bill. I saw she was so so solid in every debate performance, in every townhall she answered questions off-the-cuff and she was simply dazzling. I learned New Yorkers who were initially skeptical were now absolutely crazy about her, she had delivered for them so well.

Then I learned about her mother, Dorothy Rodham. Dorothy was given away at age 8, and rode a train from Chicago to Los Angeles with her 3-year-old sister, because Dorothy's parents could not afford to care for them during the Great Depression. But that's not all. Dorothy had to work as a live-in maid at age 14 while she attended high school because her aunt in Los Angeles needed the money. Dorothy studied hard and was admitted to Dartmouth, but without any money, college was not an option. So she returned to Chicago hoping to reunite with her mother, but found that her mother just wasn't that interested. Knowing this made Hillary compassionate toward Bill's upbringing and toward all children who do not have the means to live to their full potential.

Dorothy's story convinced me that Hillary's achievements were not racked up simply to add bullet points to a resume. Hillary did these things because she cares and she likes to fight for these causes.

I could go on, as I then read Living History - where I learned that what Obama did as a "community organizer" Hillary also did before she even completed college. There was so much more to her.

And I saw her in that little white dress and mary jane shoes in that 1950 photo and realized that girls, too, do not think they can be president because "that's what boys do." In fact nobody even asks little girls if they want to be president someday. And a woman like Hillary would not come along again in my lifetime.



Display:


Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 5)

OH, and she can give a speech without a teleprompter.  ;)


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:47:41 PM EST

you want to tell me thats an (2.00 / 2)

attack on a point of view and not on a person? In this case the person being Obama?


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you want to tell me thats an (2.00 / 1)

You need to go back to the rules.  No attacks on diarists of commenters.  Don't know how to make that more clear.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I did not say (none / 0)

you were breaking the rules. I said you get personal in your comments.


-- be excellent to each other
by kindthoughts on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I did not say (1.40 / 5)

Whatever.  I can rec.  You obviously can't make the distinction.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:53:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I did not say (1.00 / 1)

Respectfully, you've been goading Obama supports all day with the verbal equivalent of "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you" all day.


by werehippy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I did not say (none / 0)

It is all he's got, did you expect more from him?


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:57:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I did not say (1.00 / 0)

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.  It is politics, afterall.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:06:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I did not say (none / 0)

No hurt feelings on my side, but besides my purely personal dislike of your tactics, what at least comes across as petty taunting from the safety of the majority here purely for the sake of taunting does neither your position nor the party as a whole any credit.

We are at the end of the day all on the same side and are rapidly approaching the point where the last of the current points of contention between us pass.  I'd personally all rather we started playing nice now as opposed to later.


by werehippy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I did not say (2.00 / 1)

You need to look at my past diaries and comments.  I taunt, I cajole, I build a case, I counter-point, I'm engaged in the discourse.  And believe me, A LOT of oppo opinions on this site.  
Why would I go to a site (like Kos) where there is only same-thinking opinion, all of which differs from mine?
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

haha too bad she doesn't know how to serve herself some coffee!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

The machine wasn't working, doofus. And if you want to take cheap candidate shots, try this:


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 1)

awww sweetie I think you meant this one


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

Why do our politicians suck so bad at bowling?? I mean, not that it matters, but jeez. Hillary and Obama are really awful.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 1)

At least Obama knows you put your fingers in the holes.  That was hillaryious.


by interestedbystander on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:23:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

God, I hate it when Hillary supporters do that "Hillaryous" thing. It embarrasses me so badly that I can't even spell it right.

And as for the way she held the ball... well, maybe she didn't want to mess up her manicure? I know I wouldn't.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:32:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

She thought you had to deposit money (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:38:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 1)

Maybe, but is anyone listening????????


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

She reads from notes.

At least I think that's what she does when she looks down
during her speeches. I could be wrong though.


Obama/Clark (still dreaming)
by spacemanspiff on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 4)

Don't forget how Obama had difficulty explaining his 129 "present" votes in the Illinois legislature on issues such as promoting school discipline and prohibiting sex shops near places of worship. Not to mention women's reproductive health issues.

"When we needed someone to take a stand, Senator Obama took a pass. He wasn't there for us then and we don't expect him to be now."

IllinoisNOW.org


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:49:03 PM EST

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 3)

But hillary has had more difficulty explaining her vote for the bush/cheney/clinton war. How many people died due to Obamas votes? Now how many have died because os hillarys vote.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 3)

What steps did Obama take to end the war? Where are the protests he led? Where are the letters he wrote? Where are the boycotts? Where did he denounce all funding?

Hmmmm...didn't think so.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

But again, Obama knew it was a bad idea and Clinton chose to believe bush. No matter how you slice it Hillary was fooled by the biggest fool of them all.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 1)

Oh come now, we should know better than that. Just because it doesn't fit into a quick and dirty sound bite that the Illinois senate has arcane rules and allows one to vote "present" as opposed to a simple yes/no for strategic purposes doesn't mean we here, who represent among the most informed and technologically savvy of Democratic voters, should trot this out as if it was a damning argument.


by werehippy on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

NOW didn't work on legislative strategy on this issue. Planned Parenthood did.

"We worked on the 'present' vote strategy with Obama," said Pam Sutherland, chief lobbyist for the Illinois branch of Planned Parenthood, an abortion rights group. "He was willing to vote 'no', and was always going to be a 'no' vote for us."

Sutherland said Planned Parenthood calculated that a 'present' vote by Obama would encourage other senators to cast a similar vote, rather than voting for the legislation. "They were worried about direct mail pieces against them. The more senators voted present, the harder it was to mount an issues campaign against the senator."
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-chec ker/2008/02/obamas_voting_record_on_abor ti_1.html


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

PP accounts for 7 present votes. I have never gotten a straight answer from a BHO'er about the other 122, mostly the question is hidden. gee, I wonder why?


by zerosumgame on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:51:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

heh heh oh what will you do when Obama is nominated?


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:49:07 PM EST

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

Oh, they'll continue to spout convenient bullshit because they didn't bother to educate themselves about Illinois state civics.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:51:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Weep for our country (2.00 / 4)

But luckily I won't have to. I'm returning to Portland this weekend to put Hillary over the top there.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weep for our country (2.00 / 1)

man I never understood the hatred you guys have for Obama.  


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe it's about Hillary (2.00 / 2)

Maybe I weep because we passed up one of the greatest presidents since FDR. Maybe I weep for women, who could have one of their own be among one of the greatest presidents since FDR. And weep for the knowledge that months from August people would realize their Hillary Hate was so unfounded they would wonder what had happened to themselves, that they let this stellar candidate pass them by.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe it's about Hillary (none / 0)

Sorry to break it to you, but there will be qualified women to become president in the future she doesn't own the monopoly to that and whatever happened to democracy?  People voted and he is winning why can't Hillary supporters accept that?  Why does it have to be your way or the country would weep nonsense?  


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Her mother was born before women could vote (none / 0)

I see women politicans out there but Hillary without Bill has star quality unmatched by any politician today, male or female.

Wish I were as articulate as the other diarists here but all I can say is she is really, really special.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NAFTA, Welfare Reform, DOMA. (none / 0)

Which of those earned Hillary the comparison to FDR?

Sometimes, the Hillary love is as baffling as the Hillary hate.  


Support Regina Thomas, GA-12
by Drew on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:05:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weep for our country (none / 0)

Over the top! Are you drunk? She has NO way of catching up. She lost, get over it.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In Oregon (2.00 / 2)

Put her over the top in that state. Then the rules committee meets May 31, and with that Oregon victory at her back things will go well there. Then it's on to Puerto Rico, Montana, Nebraska, and Denver.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:01:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Oregon (none / 0)

hahah oh man reality has a Obama bias after all!


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

Jeez, now we're trashing his achievements in law school?  Come on.  

Let me guess, you were never on the Harvard Law Review?


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:55:21 PM EST

You bet. (2.00 / 2)

You see, we who have worked along Stanford grads, Ivy League grads, people with special degrees have learned something: some of these people skate on that fancy degree their whole lives. We have a joke about mentioning you went to Harvard: "he dropped the H-bomb."

I used to buy into it. You want to Stanford? Oh well you must really deliver. Not necessarily. It means you got good grades in High School. Good SAT scores in High School. You played sports in High School. Often it means you had a parent who went to Harvard. It doesn't necessarily mean you work harder, or you deliver more.

Some Harvard grads deliver. Some don't. What does the degree tell you, when George W. Bush had one?


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh (none / 0)

While you obviously don't want to admit it, Obama was never someone who "skated" on a "fancy degree."

Gotta love sh*tting on the accomplishments of a Democrat.


by Slim Tyranny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:10:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is he dedicated to (1.66 / 3)

other than getting elected? What has he put himself on the line for? What tough battles has he fought where he was willing to be unpopular?


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Want a list? (none / 0)

Here's a few:

- community organizer

  • turned down Big Law jobs to work at a smaller, civil rights boutique firm
  • spoke out against the Iraq War when it was not exactly the party line
  • worked against the death penalty in Illinois, to the point where the GOP now has runs smear ads against him on TV on the issue
  • didn't pander on the gas tax
  • taught constitutional law at a premier law school

Look, keep downplaying his accomplishments and dismissing him without just cause; you only make yourself look bad.


by Slim Tyranny on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:28:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is a community organizer? (2.00 / 1)

I've been waiting this entire primary for somebody from his community organizing days to say what Obama accomplished that made him stand out from the crowd.

All I can gather is he registered some voters.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:50:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

heh, well, give me a break (none / 0)

Rather than sitting around and waiting for someone to feed you the information, why not do a little digging.  Start here:

http://www.pickensdemocrats.org/info/The Agitator_070319.htm

That article alone has plenty from "somebodies" from his community organizing days saying what he accomplished that made him stand out.

"All" you can "gather" is clearly nothing if you're sitting there, not doing any searching.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:01:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

His bullet points get thinner (1.50 / 2)

upon closer review.

Speaking out against the war: not so hard, when he was running for Senate in an extremely liberal district. And then he later erased the speech from his website.

Taught law: no, was a guest lecturer.

Worked at Civil Rights firm: tried not a single case. Established no signature issue. Did not distinguish himself there.

Worked against death penalty in Illinois: did not work for this. A kingmaker put Obama's name on the bill that somebody else had done all the legwork for.

Didn't pander on the gas tax: criticized a windfall profits tax on oil companies that could fund government grants for renewable energy or public transportation infrastructure because he could call Hillary a panderer in an election. Offered no alternative idea of his own.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:58:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hahahahaha (none / 0)

Speaking out against the war WAS hard, no matter where you came from.

"Taught law: no, was a guest lecturer."  This is the height of ignorance.  He was a professor, he TAUGHT a class on constitutional law.  He was a teacher.  Dismissing him as a "guest lecturer" is absurdist and false.

"tried not a single case." You don't have to try cases to make a difference as a civil rights attorney.  The law firm itself only has exemplary things to say about him, and he definitely distinguished himself.  So again, you are lying.

You also lie about the death penalty case.  That is a COMPLETE fabrication you said.

SERIOUSLY, you are a fucking LIAR.

Christ, I thought you were actually interested in learning more about him.  I didn't realize I was dealing with a smear artist and liar.  My bad.

I'm done with you.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:04:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

His signature issue at the firm was...? (none / 0)

Yes I'm sure people had stellar things to say about him, as they did at Harvard Law Review. "He's charismatic." "He speaks well, has a great voice." "It seems like he is on my side." "He has a very interesting background."


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:10:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Jesus, RESEARCH (none / 0)

Take 2 seconds and use this magical website called "Google."

Start here:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/02/2 0/america/NA-POL-US-Obama-Attorney-at-La w.php?page=1

You are so condescending to Obama, and yet you are talking out of your ass.  You should be embarrassed.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:13:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He participated on a decent case (none / 0)

Obama also wrote a major portion of an appeals brief on behalf of a whistleblower who exposed waste and corruption in a research project involving Cook County Hospital and the Hektoen Institute for Medical Research and alleged that she was fired in retaliation.

He was one of many on that case. It was a whistleblower case. Was this his signature issue?
by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:16:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you understand (none / 0)

how law firms work?

Are you being purposefully obtuse?


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:17:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I know how political careers work (none / 0)

And usually do get elected to city council you must develop a signature issues, or a few signature issues.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:25:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Signature issue" (none / 0)

I don't get this buzzword.  He worked on various important cases as an associate at a law firm.  What that has to do with getting elected to city council is beyond me.

Look, you need to do a couple things:

1. admit you are wrong about "community organizing", what it involved and what people thought of Obama's work

  1. admit you are wrong about Obama's status as someone who taught constitutional law at a major law school
  2. admit you are wrong in your characterizations of Obama's legal career
  3. admit you are wrong about Obama's work on the death penalty in Illinois


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:29:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Community organizing (none / 0)

You tout what's on your resume when you run for president. That he touts this tells us there is little else to talk about. That we don't know what he accomplished as a community organizer tells us even more.

Ok - he was a professor. He had a prestigious job. He worked at a prestigious firm. I need more evidence on how hard he worked on the death penalty thing. So far all I have is prestige. I never said he didn't have prestige.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:32:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

FUCKING LIAR (1.00 / 1)

Alright, troll, you need to stop the BS.

"You tout what's on your resume when you run for president. That he touts this tells us there is little else to talk about. That we don't know what he accomplished as a community organizer tells us even more."

I gave you a fucking link on what to read to learn what he accomplished.  It's not Obama's fault you're too lazy to read up about him.  Do you want the link again?

Seriously, YOU ARE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:37:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You sound like Obama supporters (none / 0)

when asked about policy, they give you a link to his website.

Tell me in your own words!


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you fucking serious? (1.00 / 1)

You are such an embarrassment.  Really.

I gave you a link to a NEWS ARTICLE.  Not the Obama website.

In my own words? FUCK THAT.  The truth is out there, already researched.  The fact that you're PURPOSEFULLY LAZY is no excuse ---- you're just doing this so you can continue lying.

Seriously, are you serious with this crap?


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ooooh profanity in your comments (none / 0)

Seriously, if your candidate has the nomination sewn up - then arguing with me, a troll, is not worth your time or high blood pressure.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:44:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You know, (none / 0)

the normal thing for you to do would be to admit your error and apologize.

But I know you won't do that.  I also know you'll lie again in the near future, and pretend you know nothing about Obama's community organizing days, his legal career, his work in the Illinois legislature.

You'll just keep lying and continue your little smear campaign.

Obama is the presumptive nominee; why a troll like you is on a Democratic website lying about him is beyond me.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:47:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The community organizing (none / 0)

you never debunked that he did close to nothing.

I'll give you the death penalty - but you can hardly blame me. He spends so much time talking about nothingness like hope and change, you'd think he'd talk substance if he could.

And yes, I know he was in the Illinois leg and Emil Jones helped him out a lot there. I never said he didn't.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:50:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are lying again (none / 0)

Blatantly lying.  Did you read that article at all? Here it is, again, so you can't also lie about the debunking:

http://www.pickensdemocrats.org/info/The Agitator_070319.htm

"he did close to nothing" = complete lie.

Seriously, your mom would not be proud of your dishonesty.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:52:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's another article (none / 0)

More proof you are a liar:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articl es/070826/3obama.htm

Seriously, your ignorance can only be purposeful at this point.  Try this:

google.com

That site is a great way of learning stuff.  Try searching: Obama + "community organizer"


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:57:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In your own words! (none / 0)

Forget it! I did my work - I read his book, I followed him this whole primary, watched him in debates.

Read every article I could. Time and again the link was impressive - it has "washingtonpost" embedded ooh that's a good link so impressive! Then upon reading the article it's so much less impressive than it first appears.

Here's a suggestion, whenever I post a link arguing for Hillary over Obama, I also include a pullquote from said link. That way readers don't have to click through to the link to get an idea of what the link says. But they can click if they'd like to read further.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:00:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

shorter catfish: (none / 0)

"I'm too much of a troll to admit I was wrong, plus this is really all about just lying over and over again anyways, so I am going to ignore all evidence handed to me on a silver platter in order to maintain this charade.  Truth is immaterial."

Shameless, dude.  Your mother must be embarrassed by you.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:03:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's really great about you (none / 0)

is that you fully admit you want to stay stupid.

It's almost refreshing, were it not for the continuous lying.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:04:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just admit you were wrong (none / 0)

It will feel good to quit smearing the man.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:23:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Smearing is not the right word (1.00 / 1)

I'm simply saying why I'm not impressed with the guy. To smear is to spread false rumors.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:40:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

You are spreading false rumors.  And lies.

That's why you're smearing him.

I mean, you said he didn't teach law.  Do you realize how much of a troll that makes you?


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:42:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Death Penalty (none / 0)

I'm willing to be proved wrong, but:

Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

"I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit.

"I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the one-yard line, and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."

During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law -- including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:12:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are proven wrong (none / 0)

AP:
While an Illinois state senator, Obama was key in getting the state's notorious death penalty laws changed, including a requirement that in most cases police interrogations involving capital crimes must be recorded. ...

"Without Barack's energy, imagination and commitment I do not believe the very substantial and meaningful reforms that became law in Illinois would have taken place," said author Scott Turow, a member of the state commission that recommended many of the changes.

Read here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/12 /124344/53

Now, stop smearing the man, please.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:16:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You didn't prove me wrong (none / 0)

You cite daily kos as a source.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:16:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

READ THE LINK (none / 0)

The dkos link has further links to news articles and original source material on the DP recommendations in Illinois.

Or did you just stop as soon as you saw "dailykos"?


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:19:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are proven wrong (none / 0)

Since you are apparently allergic to dkos, here the direct links to a couple of the news articles in that diary you want to discount:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2007/02/08/AR2007020802262_ pf.html

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/12/o bama.death.penalty.ap/


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Impressive! (none / 0)

Obama was a persistent foe of social conservatives on issues of reproductive rights. He was also a reliable vote for gun control and backed a ban on assault weapons, although he took a political hit from Democrats for missing an important gun vote while in Hawaii for the Christmas holidays.

He is willing to be unpopular. He's willing to miss important votes that may hurt him politically. Those six "wrong button" votes were like that too.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:29:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So you admit you were wrong? (none / 0)

On the death penalty point?

You admit it?

Cmon, admit it.  It will feel good.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:30:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not the silly guest lecturer thing again! (none / 0)

Please stop it with that one. It discredits the rest of your argument.

The school released statement that he was, in fact, a professor.

He was a Senior Lecturer at the UoC Law School. He shared that rank with some of the most prestigious faculty the school has. If Sandra Day O'Connor were to join the law faculty at UoC, this is exactly the rank she'd take.


by professor on Wed May 14, 2008 at 04:54:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You bet. (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the H-bomb, perhaps moreso than you might expect.  Of course, 1) your explanation pertains to the undergrad college and not the law school, and 2) as a child raised by a single parent who was only able to attend his high school through scholarships, and with no Harvard legacy, I have no idea how your characterization of the Harvard "Gentleman's C" student applies to Obama.  Actually, he seems to be the very opposite of your caricature.

Winning a place on a school's official law review is a singular achievement in the career of a law student.  It is much moreso when the institution is Harvard and the person is additionally chosen as its editor.  It is a mark of extremely hard work combined with extreme intelligence.  That he did not publish a note does not diminish that achievement, nor does it necessarily mean that it was due to laziness or whatever you imagine the reason to be.


by rfahey22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's father went to Harvard, mom had Phd (none / 0)

Barack Obama was a Harvard legacy. His dad may have left when Barack was young. His mom may have relied on food stamps for a brief period, but she was pursuing her Phd.

There's a reason it's not just "the wealthy" but "the wealthy and the well-connected."


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:52:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's father went to Harvard, mom had Phd (none / 0)

He's not a Harvard Law School legacy.  His father did not attend the law school, and therefore he would have received no institutional advantage from the connection.  Each school tends to itself.  If Obama had wanted to be an economist, perhaps that would have been a different story.

In any event, is it really your theory, that, essentially, he's a lazy legacy student, solely on the basis that he did not publish a note?  Frankly, that's quite an imaginative and substanceless mythology you've created for yourself.  


by rfahey22 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:13:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Two kinds of legacies (1.00 / 1)

One is the kind that donates money to his or her alma mater and threatens to withhold donations if the kid is not admitted.

Other is the one who cannot donate. But knowing your parent graduated from an Ivy League gives a kid the confidence and opens the kid's mind to shooting that high.

There's a reason we now give scholarships to kids who are the first in their family to attend college.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:19:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two kinds of legacies (none / 0)

At this point I don't even understand what you're arguing about.  Are you now criticizing Obama because his father may or may not have given him "the confidence [to open his] mind to shooting high"?  How in the world does that connect with anything in your diary?  Why would that even be considered a negative - aren't parents to instill in their children a belief that they can do anything, if they put their minds to it?

First, you implied that Obama got to Harvard Law School because he was either wealthy or well connected (I guess the latter).  Now, you've fallen back to some vague charge that his father (gasp) gave him ambition to attain a higher education, and that is somehow bad for some reason.  Does that about sum it up?


by rfahey22 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:26:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

he makes no sense (none / 0)

That's his gimmick.  Make ridiculous arguments, then just move away from them when they are proven wrong.

He's a troll.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Give up (none / 0)

I thought catfish was sincere, but it's all a disingenuous act.  He is smearing Obama, playing ignorant and spreading old, debunked lies about Obama.

He's a joke.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:20:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Give up (none / 0)

You're right, it's pointless.


by rfahey22 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:27:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When you lose an argument (none / 0)

call the other a troll.

You're right. I don't like him. Can't really stand him. I know McCain is wrong on the war and clueless about the economy. But Obama makes me so uneasy I am having a really hard time resolving to vote Democrat in November.

And if I'm having a hard time, what about people who do not care about racial progress?


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:37:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, you're wrong (none / 0)

When you kick someone's ass in an argument, and they still cling to their stupidity, then you call them a troll.

You're a troll.  You lost over and over again, your lies got exposed over and over again, and that makes you a troll.

The fact that you "can't really stand" Obama does not give you license to lie about the man and smear him.  


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:39:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're getting angry (1.00 / 1)

This isn't worth getting angry. After all, your guy has the nomination locked up, right?


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Stupidity annoys me (2.00 / 1)

Purposeful stupidity pisses me off.

This also isn't worth being a liar, so start telling the truth.

Start by apologizing for being wrong about everything you said and acknowledging that you were way off base. Go.


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:45:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There will be plenty more in your lifetime (2.00 / 1)

Governorships and Senate positions are filled with women these days. In fact, I'm willing to bet that in every presidential election from here on out there will be a credible female candidate. It will happen, just not this year. Don't get too down


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:00:28 PM EST

Re: Women in Office (2.00 / 1)

"Governorships and Senate positions are filled with African Americans these days. In fact, I'm willing to bet that in every presidential election from here on out there will be a credible AA candidate. It will happen, just not this year. Don't get too down...."


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:07:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Women in Office (none / 0)

I hope so. I hope you hope so too.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But Hillary (2.00 / 1)

applied to college at a time when Yale did not admit women to undergrad divisions.

She wrote to NASA at age 14 asking what she had to do to be an astronaut or to work there. Their reply? Sorry honey, you have to be a boy.

Because of these limitations she began right out of school working for children. Working for women because when women have rights, families thrive. Daughters AND sons thrive.

I learned that people, many men, had been following Hillary in the news for YEARS and had been waiting for this herstoric run with much hope and anticipation. People on our email listservs from Europe have been following her. She is an international superstar.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But Hillary (none / 0)

I'm not denigrating Clinton. She is a very very worthy candidate, but she lost this election. I'm just commenting on your statement that you will never see another woman candidate like her. The fact is, there are MANY qualified women. Hillary is not the only one. Just as Obama is not the only African American politician.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:14:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She is one of a kind (none / 0)

Who else holds a candle to her?


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:38:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What does this have to do with race? (2.00 / 1)

So you think Hillary Clinton is amazing and you believe a bunch of falsehoods about Barack Obama. Why did you title your diary, "Race Matters to This Hillary Voter," when race had nothing to do with you decision to support Hillary Clinton? Maybe I'm obtuse but I don't get it.


by elrod on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:05:54 PM EST

Re: What does this have to do with race? (2.00 / 2)

Re-read the first sentence and first paragraph.

If a pollster asked me if race mattered to me when deciding who to vote for, my answer would be "yes" because after Hillary, we need to elect a person of color to the highest office. Preferably a black man. I like Corey Booker. He has everything Obama doesn't: humility, grace, willingness to roll up his sleeves and gain real experience. Gratitude. Respect and acknowledgement of his elders who broke barriers and made his life achievements possible. And absence of bitterness but understanding of why others feel that way.


by catfish1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:10:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (none / 0)

You're flopping around like a fish out of water tonight.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:43:02 PM EST

can you prove this? (2.00 / 0)

when you were pro-obama, did you ever post any pro-obama comments or diaries at daily kos?

it would be illuminated, if you could provide links.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:41:10 AM EST

he's a troll (2.00 / 1)


by Slim Tyranny on Wed May 14, 2008 at 12:49:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Al at dailykos (none / 0)

I turned starting around the time Krugman was pointing to Obama's weaknesses on healthcare.

The LATimes article on the 6 "oops" votes was a major chink in his armor. Since then other incidents have added up.

I know I made my final decision the Saturday following his Iowa victory. I saw his victory speech for the third time and something snapped - the rose colored glasses fell off.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Al at dailykos (none / 0)

add some links.  if true, it would be interesting.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Wed May 14, 2008 at 01:33:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah on strike (none / 0)

Just take a leap of faith and trust a Hillary voter, Al.


by catfish1 on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:36:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Race Matters to This Hillary Voter (2.00 / 0)

Great diary, cat. And sure seemed to upset the BO supporters big time. Although the MSM continues to give him a free ride, I think it's important to put the facts about BO out there, even though you risk the wrath of his supporters.


by susanclare on Wed May 14, 2008 at 09:40:32 AM EST


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